Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

bastian — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 00:17:48 GMT

From what I understrand, Nano solar only sells comercially. I would like to know where I could purchase these less expensive solar panels for my home. And for the profits of the oil industry. Why is there no complaints of our federal, state and local governments imposing there taxes on every gallon of gas sold.

One other item is, why do WE the people put up with our representatives using government vehicles, government paid insurance and government paid gas, that we the people have to pay for? Why don't they have to provide their own and deduct the expenses as we have to on their income taxes. Furthermore the millionaires in congress I feel should be taking no salary or minimal and allowing us to vote on their pay raises. Who ever heard of an employee voting in their own pay increase?

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

GARKO NOVIS — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:48:33 GMT

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re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

Mary/Mary — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:55:33 GMT

TO RRGRASSI: Sounds great to have the energy company pay us, but are you aware that in CALIFORNIA, to my knowledge, is one of the states that if you generate more energy than you use, you only get credit for future use, and they do not generate money for you when the current goes the other way. I have a brother that lives in Colorado, and they generate checks for consumers for any backwards energy flow. Leave it to California to flump on its people.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

mikeyt35_203 — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:02:33 GMT

Recently got a quote for a 4.8 KW system for my house. First came in at $42,000 then the same company revised it to an amount of $47,000. Guess they need the number to Nanosolar.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

grafxman — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:52:54 GMT

I read several RE/Alternative Energy publications, and the Nanosolar "Factory" is not yet producing, or is _commercial_ only, as of today (3-5-08). It is indeed a wonderful idea, but it is not yet available in commercial quantities for "home" users. Until it is, and has a worthwhile warranty (10 year min.), it is more "pie in the sky." I hope they can do it in truly usable quantities, and give it a good (30+ year) warranty.

Right now, RE/AE is difficult to buy and use. The average consumer wants products that require minimal maintenance. Drivers, for the most part, want to put fuel in vehicles, and have regular maintenance done by trained, _easily_ available_ workers. RE/AE is like the early years of car ownership. The driver must be able to drive, fuel, and *maintain* the vehicle.

When all you need to know is: how much do you need to have (sq. ft.); how much of the life span is left; does it increase/decrease the value of the house; can the stereotypical "blonde" run the system' it will be readily used. Most of the methods of "greening" are still too hard for average people, to be successful today. You not only have to want to maintain complex systems, or be physically fit, to use them, but there is little effort to _change_ that.

When a five year old child can use the "green toilet," or maintain the Solar Power system (home), at a price of $1-2/watt, they will *sell.* People come home to rest/relax, not play "systems engineer." The perception is that it requires *work* to live a "green lifestyle." Until that changes, sales will be to the adventuresome. Because then the reasons to do it, will be greater than the reasons not to. Forcing changes will not work, unless and until that happens.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

Future4u — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:54:13 GMT

Better World Technologies has been trying for over two decades to introduce what they call their " Free Energy " program . By " Free " , meaning it will not cost the homeowner where the unit installed for his/her Electricity requirements for life plus an annual bonus of $1,500 . It's merely a " barter " arrangement to provide the grid tie for the unit that will produce 30,000 KWHs monthly . The excess will be returned to the power grid and sold at " wholesale ( .05 cents per KWH ) to other homeowners . Go to bwt.jeffotto.com/.../redca.php . This technology has been suppressed by TPTB since 1986 but will finally be available after 07/10/2008 . Electricity has been de-regulated so this company has developed it's own electric utility company called " International Tesla Electri Company ( ITEC ) " to circumvent the oppression .

This technology will de-centralize energy production and eliminate the need for centralized power plants and their resulting pollution . It will also release the populace from the grips of TPTB , relieve the transfer of wealth from the general populace to the greedy momopolies . The money will remain in the country , thus elieviate the balance of trade . This can be accomplished without the use of the power grid but that would cause disruption of the economy .

The years of suppression have been ruthless , including the use of illegal persacusion , assassination attempts and character assassinations .

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

Future4u — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:26:11 GMT

There's a privately owned research and development company located in New Jersey that has brought to market what they call the " Hydro Assist Fuel Cell ( HAFC ) " . These technologies are developed by a company called Dutchman , Inc and Better World Technologies owns the World Wide marketing rights . On 6/25/07 they began training classes to develop an infrestructure of " Instructors " that after a 4 day course return to their home domain to begin training local mechanics to become " Certified Installers " . Although the units can be installed by anyone mechanically inclined , the units have what is called the " Optimizer " that must be " tuned " or trained to teach the factory's computer to allow maximum fuel economy . The factory computer is set to place a " limit " on fuel economy . To better understand how this technology works go to " bwt.preignitioncc.com/.../redca.php . More than 100 master mechanics and automotive Engineers have thus far completed this course . During these training courses they have modified several vehicles with the average fuel economy improvement at 95% . The company , once the Optimizer unit is " tuned " by a " Certified Optimizer Tuning Technician ( COTT ) " will isue a guarantee of 50% fuel economy improvement .

On March 5 , 2008 they will introduce what they call the " Pre ignition Catalytic Converter ( PICC ) " at the Renewable Energy show in Washington , D.C. from March 05 - 07 , 2008 . On display will be a Toyota SUV with a 6.1 engine modified with the PICC that gets 100+ MPG . Also on display will be a 2004 4 cylinder Mazda modified with the HAFC that gets 121 MPG . Their booth is located at the main entrance .

Better World Technologies has additional technologies that will be introduced as time passes .

The beauty of the HAFC unit is that the hydrogen is produced on board the vehicle as it's needed thus relieving the need for a fueling station infrastructure .

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

Kevin Booth — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:18:53 GMT

There is info out there if you look for it. Type Magnetic Engine in your search.

My idea's are just that idea's. They work in my mind, becasue all things are possible in my mind. Just because things are as they appear, does not mean they are not possible. Physic are the Physic we know, not the one we don't know.

Do I have any idea that my idea's will work? Sure I do. From a mechnicial background and musicial, electronic idea's, sure.

No I do not have working models. There no need for it. There are people who know of these creation can be done.

Who would of thought solar cells would work ' because they do! "It's that simple".

Have I thought about problem with working model? Yes!

Money is good and bad. It's just the way you use it and the types of things you do with it. It is impossible for great progress ( the word great ) with the idea that making money only to hold into it for useless things, like parties and living the good life.

The word on this site for better healing and lies and deciption of what we hear and know. It would be foolish not to talk about how money is our root to our own evil envoirment. ( not to evil, but to our own desire, not those or others ) This is my message and I can not focus issues that will resolve world problems if I am fighting those who oppose my idea's for the sake of money. I do not come up with these Idea's to make money, but to have a better world. I question where my idea will make the world better. If we are so easily bored. When and if I make the world a better place that I had envisioned, will it truely be better. Why try if in my mind I don't see it happening. I might have vision for idea, but I'm a truest.

I know man can not live we this idea's, because they are beyod mainstream thinking. Even this site sells product for profit. Where is the true profit from that? If people are trying to shut down these sites and beind down right mad.

I can't live in that enviroiment for my life. Even if my idea's are great or not.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

Jaiem — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:36:50 GMT

Hi JM, I hope you're considering how best to design your office for both passive AND active solar heating, cooling, and air circulation. There are ways to link up solar, normal convection, and geothermal energy as well, so if you're designing your own office, there's absolutely no reason that it cannot be energy self-sufficient. If you haven't yet encountered Home Power Magazine (www.homepower.com), I highly encourage you to seek them out, look through their archives, get their CDs, and generally feel like a kid in a candy store! Cheers, Jackie

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

tesaje — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:46:05 GMT

(cont.) If the majority of houses go to solar production and feed the grid, then electric heating or electric fired boilers for the hot water systems will become the house energy of choice and the greenest solution. The sunniest areas will become the source for the less sunny areas. But even in the cloudier areas, there is a lot of solar gain to be harnessed. You don't need 100% sun to make electricity. If the start up costs go way down, then it becomes more advantageous to harness what sun there is. The grid already moves electricity 1000's of miles. We can use solar as the source when it is there and draw from the grid when and where it is not.

For solar to ever address our economic and environmental problems, it has to be the preferred solution for every household. This will only ever happen if it gets integrated into the whole economic system. Only the government can make this happen. It is time to go back to the mindset that monopolies must be regulated and the greatest good needs to be supported by the government regulations. After all, unfettered capitalism created communism, a tiny wealthy class and huge poverty class (remember the American condition of 1900, anyone?).

For vehicles, there has to be a power source that is fast to recharge (like gas fill-ups are now). IF some sort of magnetic technology actually works, then it needs open examination. The shhhh, don't tell anyone, I've said too much kind of claims are suspect. Science and technology don't work that way. But fraud and con games do work that way.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

tesaje — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:32:03 GMT

This is really exciting technology. The questions are:

How durable is the product?

What is its life span?

What toxins are required in its manufacture and how are they disposed of? (side effect environmental issues)

To make solar really work will require the force of law to make the monopolies that are the electric companies and the near monopolies that are the oil/coal companies change the business structure to use these technologies. Our government-phobic society votes out any solutions like this despite the very high cost of unregulated capitalism. Until we get back to a society that sees the benefit in moderation and regulation to level the playing field among the population without going to the extremes of socialism, we won't see any progress towards our environmental and economic problems.

To make solar work, this what has to happen:

The govt. has to force the electric companies do net metering everywhere and pay the source of the power less a reasonable service charge for their part in distributing power with no limits. This way, houses that produce more power than they consume can stock the extra power they produce and draw from it when needed. Incentive to go solar.

The startup technology has to be affordable. A 10 year payout is too long and prohibitive for the majority of the population. This new technology may be a step in that direction.

Solar needs to be pretty. The ugliness of the panels makes a lot of people decide not to use it. IF this technology can be made to look like roof shingles that are attractive, durable, and affordable, building codes can require their use in new construction. Battery storage in individual houses is not practical in the long run and over the bulk of the population. We need to make the grid perform the storage and distribution function so the new technology works the same easy way it does now. The majority of the population is never going to be willing to lose the easiness of the current system.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

curious7 — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:11:27 GMT

Big business does not want to hear this fact. I wonder what ever happened to "Cold Fusion?"

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

Esther M. Cook — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:19:49 GMT

Although solar and other renewable fuels are very low polluting, there is still some mining or other cost in producing them. And they contribute nothing to making the world a better place.

Superrenewable fuels, by contrast, increase the life-potential of the Earth. That's right-there is one kind of fuel and only one, that makes it possible to increase the rainforests, increase endangered species, and increase the world's food supply to end world hunger. What is this miracle fuel, you ask? Why haven't I heard of superrenewable fuels before?

Because Big Biz leaders know something you don't and should: prices are affected by supply and demand, and profits follow prices. Cut supply a little for an important item and your profits soar. We're not talking billions of dollars, but trillions. There's a lot of power in that.

You have been told thousands or hundreds of thousands of times that fossil fuels are polluting (they are) and you have helped prevent new refineries. That is why gas costs so much and why your electric bills are skyrocketing. Fossil fuels--and only fossil fuels--release the source of Life into the air--carbon dioxide and water. Those two ingredients are what plants use to grow and over 99.9 percent of the Life on Earth is either vegetation or depends on plants to eat.

You know that wood is renewable because it re-grows in sunshine. Superrenewable fuels--coal, oil, natural gas--have been locked in the Earth for millions of years and enter the renewable cycle as soon as they are burned. Therefore they are NOT "nonrenewable."

You have been told a lot of lies on this subject and it takes 7 times as long to unlearn something as it does to learn it. Unlearning is painful, even excruciating.

But humans and critters are starving to death. Pay the price. Wise up.

I think it is more fun to grow the Earth than to scarcity-think, anyway.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

KH-Austin — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:10:18 GMT

The only issue I wonder about with the "thin film" solar technology is the same problem I saw when we used to do glass coatings for heat control in the south. "Tinting your windows" as it's called. The thin films are often metallized and do a good job at heat rejection but the adhesives are the primary issue. The adhesives simply don't hold up over time, the sun deteriorates them and then they interfere with the efficiency of the films. The get weird "crazing" lines in them, mottled spots where the adhesive is corroded away, etc. I see this as a future problem for the thin film solar as well.

We have standard solar panels at our home in Texas. There are federal rebates that outweighed any state or local incentives. We got about 30% of the $20K investment back. We wanted to "own" our own panels and the local energy incentives required you to allow the City to own them. The local program also required you to be tied to the grid so if the power goes down in the city, your solar goes down too (counterproductive for us). We wanted self sufficiency and the ability to move our panels so we can move out of the city in the future.

The batteries are a big issue. We use a lot of passive solar ideas as well - taking advantage of north facing windows to draw in cool in summer, shading south facing windows, etc. We've also changed our habits to use less energy by installing LED nightlights in bathrooms (and don't turn on the regular light unless we really need to see something), using fluorescent bulbs in other areas, reducing water use, etc.

re: Solar Energy Soon to be Cheaper Than Coal

acu doc — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:51:04 GMT

We have been living on solar power for 6 years now and here's what we have learned:

1. Solar is for rich people. We have 2000 watt system that we designed and built ourselves. It cost us $10k. It would have cost 20k if we bought it off the shelf. We live more conservatively than most people could even imagine.

2. It doesn't matter if you have 100% efficient solar panels. Until they release advanced storage (battery) technology, solar will always be impractical. After 6 years, our batteries are dying and it now costs the same to replace them as to hook up to the grid, which is exactly what we are going to do in the spring. The terrorists at the top know that, and battery engineers who figure out solutions to this problem disappear. The BATTERIES are the issue, not the generator.

3. Most people have an unrealistic, romanticized idea of what solar is about. Talk to a few regular people who are living with it before you jump into it - NOT the people with $50,000 systems.

4. Solar is only practical in a small region of the country. We have LOTS of sun in the summer, but we run the generator a lot in the winter.

5. The only solution to the energy problem is going to come from people who think OUTSIDE the box - Tesla caliber thinkers. Our entire power generation system is stone-age technology. We need someone to invent a "miracle" and then release it to the internet FOR FREE so fast that it can't be stopped. That will change the world instantly.