Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

mrcolson — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:19:53 GMT

Ok, it turns out that Abraham Lincoln was a flawed human being. He rose to be president of the United States. Some people loathe him even today. Others love him. Isn't this inherent in greatness? I'll say this: he wrote his own speeches, and they were good. Does anyone think President George W. Bush could write something on a par with the Gettysburg Address?

To everyone who thinks that the "War Between the States®" was "not about slavery", you are correct in the sense that the Iraq war is "not about oil." Correct in the sense that you can make the statement and feel validated in your viewpoint. But please, can we be honest with ourselves? Oil is at the heart of the Iraq war, just as slavery was at the heart of the "War between the States®."

Human society and human history are complex. You can't just regurgitate blanket statements like "the Civil War was NOT about slavery." Well, you can, but you just sound intellectually pinched when you do. Things are never that simple.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

Carol Morrisey — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:21:18 GMT

My brother-in-law teaches political science. His view is that if the South had been allowed to, or succeeded in, secession, the (formerly) United States would have been weakened internationally. We would not have had the resources to win World Wars I and II. I have also heard the view that the Civil War was a punishment on this nation for its treatment of the slaves. I don't know if that's true, but certainly many slaves were sorely mistreated. When you read details of their suffering (for example, in Sounding Forth the Trumpet by Peter Marshall and David Manuel), it's almost unbearable. Whatever economic reasons were involved in the Civil War, slavery was a huge factor. It was a great evil, and many of its consequences still harm us. Furthermore, slavery still exists, even right here in the US, in the form of human trafficking. May we exhibit the persistence of Lincoln in abolishing that too.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

Julieanne — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:03:50 GMT

KathieJamisonCote

'Where are all the savvy users". This is a bit insulting to anyone who has joined recently - sorry we're not good enough!

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

TWS500 — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:20:52 GMT

His wife Mary was an obstacle and a shrew if ever there was one... That Lincoln accomplished much in his life is quite a feat... While Lincoln was serving as president and commander-in-chief during the war, she was out shopping "for The White House" like a Vanderbilt bankrupting the Treasury..... She offered him little support of any kind, had a depressed mental state, and an angry temperment in most everyday life.... Think of how she affected some of Lincoln's behavior written of on this site..... That he rose above her dower moods, tantrums, and excess is a wonder...

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

fallingman — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:04:03 GMT

Lincoln...a great leader? Ha. That's a good one.

Lincoln was a study in leadership alright...dreadful leadership. Try to name all the generals he appointed to lead the union army against Lee...some of them twice...before he found his Butcher in Chief in U.S. Grant. (Grant was just willing to see more of his people slaughtered on both sides than his predecessors and so he just kept pushing ahead, something the previous clowns were loathe to do.)

Lincoln's prosecution of the war was beyond bumbling, yet he's lionized as a great leader. Why? Because the victors write the history. The "history" they teach in school is pure propaganda.

Why does it matter that we recognize Lincoln for the miscreant and criminal he was? Because he's the one who took extra-constitutional government by a "strong leader" in a time of war to its limits and in the process dealt a body blow to the great American experiment in limited government. He defined what a President could get away with and his contempt for the constitution seems to serve as a model for all our modern day Presidents.

Only if you consider what he did to be well done can you consider Lincoln great in any respect. I consider the man a failure of monumental proportions. He should serve as an object lesson in what happens when power is concentrated in the hands of a sociopathic politician with no problem killing and sending to their death hundreds of thousands of Americans.

And please don't say he fought the war to end slavery. That is pure fantasy. Read the following excerpt if you want to know the truth. The Great Emancipator he was not.

In his 1860 inaugural address, he said: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Two years later, President Lincoln wrote: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862)." And in 1858 Lincoln had written: "I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and black races, which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

Plein Air Painter — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:40:13 GMT

I've been lurking for awhile. It's amazing how folks get off topic--or miss the topic altogether. I don't think the article was about whether or not Lincoln was a great president, but on his ability to persevere in the face of adversity. It makes one wonder if this lack of focus is due to an epidemic of attention deficit disorder or dyslexia. Or maybe it's something in the water? Regardless...it's usually pretty interesting to read this stuff.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

All Under Heaven — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:56:13 GMT

To add to my last post:

Here's the actual article on the 'problem-reaction-solution' if anyone's interested. It can explain it in greater detail than I ever can here:

www.infowars.com/.../darth_nwo.htm

Very interesting stuff. I think it makes perfect sense. Not only do you have human microchipping (I heard the plan was to make it so widespread one baby step at a time that eventually people will accept it as inevitability, they're doing pilot test programs in Florida now which they say will expand to the whole country) and the guns slowly being taken away-you also have federal government biometric databases the size of several football fields, DNA databases (both in the works, they'll know who you are wherever you go), checkpoints and curfews.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

cjh — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:40:50 GMT

There are some very interesting comments here. I do know that Lincolm was a very depressed man and in that state of mind one doesn't always think clearly. Most of the information about Lincolm's going against the constitution is new to me. It's sound like that could well have been the case. I agree that the South should have been given the option to leave the union if they so desired. I agree with the man who commented that he has wanted to get out of the union for the last eight years. Enough of Bush. My reason in not voting for Ron Paul wasn't that he was a libertarian, but because I was convinced that he didn't stand a chance of winning the election. So I voted for the other candidate I liked whom I thought had a better chance of winning the election. It's the first time I've liked a canidate well enough to vote in a long time.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

LoriSmi — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:40:12 GMT

healthnut2,

Where in the world have you gotten your misinformation? Lincoln was a godly man who believed in the God of the Bible. Here are a few of his more well-known quotes:

"It is the duty of nations, as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God and to recognize the sublime truth announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord."

"All the good from the Saviour of the world is communicated through this Book; but for the Book we could not know right from wrong. All the things desirable to man are conatined in it."

Lincoln's famous words as inscribed on his Memorial: "That this Nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that the government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth". In his Second Inaugural Address he alludes to God, the Bible, providence, the Almighty, and divine attributes.

"We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; we have vainly imagined, in the decietfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us! It behooves us, then to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness." April 30, 1863, Abe's Proclamation for a National Day of Fasting, Humiliation, and Prayer.

Does this sound like a man who derided God and who did not believe in God? I have other quotes by Abe Lincoln, too. Seek & you will find.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

Gate Lion — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:16:44 GMT

Gurr public schooling!

Well are you happy with the results we have today? Ben Franklin said, “It’s a REPUBLIC, if you can keep it.” Have noticed every talking head now calls it a Democracy.

The war can’t be over, gosh, we still fly the US admiral’s battle flag.

Slavery was on the way out long before the War between the States – it was economically unsound.

Incase no one has noticed … that war didn’t end slavery, it made every one a slave; black and white alike. If you have a SSN you are a slave. Today if you are born in a US hospital (factory) you can’t leave till you have a SSN- mark of beast. If you have an SSN you must pay taxes, must sign up for the draft (which is listed in law under “trading with the enemy” <- that be you!), and obey all the wills of all the un-elected desk pushers. If you have an SSN then you are property of the US corporation not Citizen of the uS of A. Ever wonder how your company could just sale your job and you like you were property. Connect the dots.

It is why the few (slave holders; "Congressmen" - confirmed) are in charge of the many. – Why they don’t listen or respond, voting is rigged and doesn’t matter. And it is why our food, medical, educational, and energy systems are like they are today, in shambles. Connect the dots people --- This is the information age, look it up!

Fluoride keeps you complacent and from wanting to fight … let us keep it in our public water systems, it is good for "our" health. Now you know who’s health it is good for – was never yours. The enemy who must sign up for the draft, is a “criminal”, he has no rights to guns, so let us ban his guns, Constitution is dead. … connect the dots people.

Now let us send all his (our – not "their") children all over the world and spread the great word of democracy! On present course; when the War between the States finally ends, the Republic will surely draw it’s final breath. Gasp! - Live free or die!

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

Chris Laskowski — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:59:50 GMT

Russ G.-

1) What do you think are the reasons the African continent is in its current state?

2) What is your definition of prosperous?

I do not claim to know precisely all the reasons that Africa is, and has been, in turmoil for quite some time. However, as a humble student of History, I do understand some, if not all, of the causative factors are very much dependent upon the many generations who walked this earth before us who sought to alienate and disenfranchise the peoples inhabiting this great continent. In my opinion, the very much ethnocentric and possibly skewed opinion of many human being's definition of prosperous contributed to the European and Middle Eastern mercantile ships and companies who represented countries and private interests alike in the pursuit of wealth while ravaging the continent of Africa for its largest material asset... Human Beings.

Presently there are Human Beings inhabiting this great planet without the luxuries with which one might equate a prosperous existence. Many live in relative peace and harmony. There are many documented cases, currently and historically, that show these indigenous, pastoral type societies living amazingly long and vital lives. I do not wish to get into a heated debate with you, or anyone else for that matter. In fact, I applaud your point of view. I just felt compelled to share mine.

I think the question we, the people of this country, the people of this world, need to continually ask ourselves, is what this life all about. If our answer benefits the health, vitality and peace of others and ultimately the world at large, then I think we may be on the right track.

Special thanks to: sleeperawake, keepingfit, Healthnut2, Na Woo and Katie Roux.

Here's to peaceful, intelligent and productive dialogue. May this continue...

Great concepts to meditate on and study further: State's rights, Centralized Government, Federal Reserve, Lobbying by "Big Business," The "Incorporation of America," Peace.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

thealmondblossom — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:35:11 GMT

Please check my source ---an excellent debate I watched between Steve Wilkins and Peter Marshall "The Great Debate"--but I believe the Confederacy was the first nation to include the abolition of slavery in their constitution. My understanding was that the South empathized so much with how this change (freedom to slaves) would affect the freed slaves, that their plan was a gradual process versus an immediate one. This debate is highly recommended for those who, like me, grew up only hearing the winner's side of the the story. I truly have been amazed at the primary source material included in this debate that frankly undermined my straw man arguments about this war---particularly quotes from Abraham Lincoln that were a far cry from showing due respect to the African American people of this nation and more evidence that Abraham Lincoln really did more to expand slavery to all colors and races--- slavery, that is, to a centralized government-- than he did to abolish for one race. Ambitious, yes. My hero? You watch the debate and decide (:.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

4Hand Healthy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:50:40 GMT

The fact is that many other countries ended slavery without a war ...and we should have.

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

One for ALL — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:06:30 GMT

I would like to add that Ron Paul has been married to the same lovely woman for over 50 years, he's a full time physician who has many great ideas about health care reform, irs, fda, attends all of his senate meetings and votes in all, and presents alot of great ideas! There is SO MUCH more than I can type about him, but you should investigate for yourselves! Do yourself the favor! Join the silent minority that wants a postive change, in all areas, for America! It will be a big job to correct what the Bush and Clinton administration has done...but if anyone can do it and represent what we true Americans want for America- RON PAUL IS OUR MAN!

re: Leadership Lessons From One of the Greatest U.S. Presidents

One for ALL — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:01:52 GMT

We have the opportunity to have another great leader like Lincoln.

RON PAUL has all the right ideas to make America strong again!

I believe, that like Lincoln, Ron Paul has a strong chance

of winning the Presidency and making the change America needs.

He's a hard working man who's only agenda has been to be all that he can be

for his patients, in the senate, standing for America and our Constitution.

You should give him a listen. All his funds have been donated by his grass roots

followers..which include military, firefighters, law officers, and good old Americans

who want someone who is running to change the world for the better for US...

not running for some politcal favors, for a race or gender or oil company.

He stands for America...Freedom, Truth, Justice and Liberty, for ALL!

Just type in RON PAUL in the search bar above.

He's a sleeper candidate with a BIG following!

He is FOR THE PEOPLE..unlike anyone who has run for office for years!

UNITED WE STAND! VOTE FOR ~RON PAUL~