Dr. Mohammed Al-Bayati interviewed by Steven D. Keller June, 2001
Steven: Thank you for giving this interview. First of all I would like to establish with the readers who you are, your credentials and what led you to take a serious look at AIDS and its causes?
Dr. Al-Bayati: I am a pathologist and a toxicologist with a Ph.D. in comparative pathology from the University of California Davis and a dual board certified toxicologist (DABT & DABVT). I have over twenty years experience in research, teaching, diagnostic, and doing consulting work in the fields of toxicology and pathology.
I have also served as an Expert Witness on several cases involving the exposure of people to chemicals in the workplace, exposure of people to wrong therapeutic agents, and reaction of people to the side effects of therapeutic agents. In these cases, I identified the cause(s) of illnesses and provided the treating physicians and attorneys with reports describing my findings. In these reports, I also presented to the treating physicians my recommendation for monitoring and treating these illnesses.
In 1997, I established my toxicology consulting firm (Toxi-health International) in Dixon California (10 miles west of the University of California Davis) and my website contains a description of my company's wide range of services (http://www.toxi-health.com).
In October of 1997, I evaluated the medical record and the case history of a 60 year-old-white male who was suffering from pulmonary fibrosis. He was treated with immunosupprassant medications (Azathioprine and prednisone). He consulted with me to find out if his exposure to chemicals in his workplace such as Jet Fuel and/or his medications has initiated or contributed to his illness.
My communication with his treating physician, lead to the termination of his treatment with prednisone and Azathioprine. On May 19, 1998, 22 days after the last dose of prednisone, his CD4+ T cells and CD8+ T cells improved. In addition, his fungal infection and pneumonia were resolved following treatment with short course of antibiotic (Doxycycline 200mg per day for 2 weeks) and topical antifungal agent (Loprox).
This case led me to evaluate the medical literature on AIDS worldwide to find out if there were other individuals with AIDS, who were HIV-negative, and to investigate the causes of AIDS. Prior to this time, my belief was that HIV caused AIDS as we have been told by the United States Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the AIDS establishment since 1984.
My investigation of the causes of AIDS worldwide took about two years and I presented my findings in my book " Get All The Facts: HIV does not cause AIDS" and in my articles. The first twenty pages of my book and the articles are posted on my website (http://www.toxi-health.com) and http://www.news-gap.com. My findings show clearly that HIV is not the cause of AIDS.
Steven: I've read your book, "Get All the Facts: HIV Does Not Cause AIDS" and I was really impressed by the information you found in your research. What can a toxicologist/pathologist offer to the current sea of information without getting bogged down by the populous information that we already have?
Dr. Al-Bayati: We can play a very important role in evaluating the medical information presented by physicians, scientists, and researchers and to provide correct interpretations of the information to get to the correct cause(s) of illness. For example, the CDC and the AIDS establishment stated that the epidemiology of AIDS indicates that AIDS is caused by virus called HIV, but my evaluation of the epidemiology of AIDS revealed that HIV is not the cause of AIDS.
The correct approach that should be taken to solve AIDS, or any other complicated chronic medical problems, is by evaluating all medical evidence concerning each risk group, namely, a differential diagnosis.
I used this approach in this case to figure out the causes of AIDS in each risk group. I have found that the epidemiology and other medical evidence indicate clearly that HIV is not the cause of AIDS and that AIDS is caused by the use of immunosuppressive medications that have been used to treat wide range of illnesses caused by the use of drugs and alcohol.
In Africa, AIDS is caused by severe malnutrition and the release of endogenous cortisol. Any individual suffering from severe malnutrition has AIDS regardless if he or she is HIV-positive or HIV-negative. In addition, AIDS in people suffering from malnutrition can be reversed by giving proper nutrition and supportive medical care. I gave many examples in my book to illustrate these points.
Steven: Given what has happened to Dr. Peter Duesberg and having his funding scaled back because of his viewpoints and public questioning of HIV and AIDS, are you not concerned for your job security? Are you not stepping on the toes of the mainstream view that a virus is what actually causes AIDS?
Dr. Al-Bayati: Prior to November of 1997, I believed that HIV was the cause of AIDS and I did not have any intention to investigate this issue. However, I discovered in November of 1997 that AIDS can be caused by other agents, and that HIV is a harmless virus. I also realized that AZT and the antiviral drugs are killing people, which changed my direction.
It became my duty as a scientist to investigate this issue, to find out the truth, and to present my findings to our government and to the public. I have been spending a tremendous amount of time and money on this issue for the last four years without any financial help from any source. This has been extremely hard on my family, but what keeps me going is the reward of saving lives and our vital resources.
My findings were evaluated by professor Otto G. Raabe, a toxicologist from the University of California Davis, as well as other scientists and physicians who have been using my findings to save lives. In spring of 2000, I sent similar letters with copies of my books to President Mbeki and the Embassy of South Africa in Washington D.C. My book was submitted to President Mbeki's Expert AIDS Panel where the medical evidence was evaluated and used. The panel report is posted on http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/panel/index.htm.
I do not understand why our government is ignoring this huge medical evidence that shows HIV does not cause AIDS while basing their entire AIDS program on unsupported hypothesis. Robert Gallo stated that HIV enters CD4+ T cells because they have special receptors for HIV and that HIV kills CD4+T cells selectively.
I have found no truth for this hypothesis.
Most individuals infected with HIV show hyperplasia of all cell components of lymph nodes (It has more cells than normal). In addition, HIV is present in all cells in the lymph nodes. Our government's decision of basing the entire AIDS program on the HIV-hypothesis is a very dangerous and costly decision. This faulty decision has been resulting in the exposure of millions of people to very toxic antiviral drugs worldwide unnecessarily and wasting billions of dollars.
My stand on this issue has cost me a lot of my personal time, plenty of money and business opportunities. However, I will continue to present the medical evidence to physicians, scientists and to the people of the world to save lives and vital resources.
I cannot stand by and watch the mass killing of people or the killing of the unborn with AZT and other antiviral drugs. I am asking people to read the medical evidence that I have presented on this issue and to request that our government evaluate the medical evidence presented that clearly shows that HIV is not the cause of AIDS.
The tragic poisoning of people by AZT and other anti-viral drugs has to be stopped. Now, we know what causes AIDS worldwide and we know how to cure AIDS. The medical evidence, which proves my point, is presented in Anthony Fauci's publications, and in my book and my articles. I will be happy to discuss my findings with our government and with public.
Steven: Within your report, which is very detailed, it is your opinion that people suffering from AIDS is a direct result from chronic drug use, both illicit and prescription. Can you talk a little about this and how you came up with these findings?
Dr. Al-Bayati: I evaluated the medical evidence and determined the causes of AIDS worldwide by performing differential diagnosis. In the USA, the total cases of AIDS in adults was 573,800 as of January 1, 1997 and about 90% of these cases were male homosexuals and heterosexuals, and homosexual drug users.
The appearance of AIDS in the United States and Europe in drug users and homosexuals occurred in the early 1980's and coincided with the synergistic actions of several events.
Briefly, these include the spread of illicit drug use, especially smoking crack cocaine and heroin in 1970's, the approval of glucocorticoids aerosol by the United States Federal Drug Agency 1976, the wide use of the glucocorticoid inhalers to treat chronic respiratory illnesses resulting from inhaling cocaine and heroin, the wide use of alkyl nitrites by homosexuals to facilitate anal sex in 1970's, and the wide use of steroids to treat chronic gastrointestinal tract illness in homosexuals.
The approval of antiviral drugs (AZT and protease inhibitors) and the steroids by the U.S. FDA to treat patients with AIDS and asymptomatic patients infected with HIV has been exacerbating the problem.
The regular use of alcohol, heroin, cocaine, amphetamines, and alkyl nitrite cause chronic health problems of the nervous system, respiratory system, cardiovascular system, kidneys and other tissues in these individuals. The majority of these health problems are usually treated with high doses of glucocorticoids and/or cytotoxic drugs.
In addition, some homosexual men use rectal glucocorticoids to treat inflammation. For example, the treatment of a patient with prednisone at 60 mg per day for about three months can actually cause AIDS. This treatment and doses are often given to patients suffering from lung fibrosis, thrombocytopenia, and other chemically induced chronic illnesses.
I listed in Tables 12 and 14 of my book more than 30 illnesses in risk groups that are treated with prednisone and/or other immunosuppressant medications. For example, Anthony Fauci in his book entitled "Principles of Internal Medicine" published by McGraw-Hill in 1998, 14th edition (p. 1463) described the treatment for patient with lung fibrosis as follows: "A trial of oral prednisone is begun at a dose of 1 mg/kg daily and continued for about 8 weeks.
Should the disease not respond or be progressive, additional immunosuppression with cyclophosphamide should be considered. The objective is to reduce the white blood cell count to approximately half the normal baseline value, causing a distinct drop in the total lymphocyte count.
However, a minimum count of 1000 PMNs/µL should be maintained". At this dose levels, the CD4+T cells count in the peripheral blood of the treated individual is expected to be <300/µL which meets the definition for AIDS set by the US Center For Diseases Control and Prevention (CDC).
Furthermore, the reversal of CD4+ T cells depletion in the peripheral blood was also reported in HIV+ homosexual men after the termination of their treatment with glucocorticoids. Sharpstone et al., 1996 reported that eight HIV+ males with inflammatory bowel disease who used rectal steroid preparation had a decline in their CD4+ T cells at a rate of 85 cells/µL per year.
Four of them underwent colonectomy that eliminated the need for the steroid and their CD4+ T cells increased 4 cells/µL per year. Eight case-matched controls that did not have surgery continued to have a decline of 47 cells/µL per year as the result of the use of rectal steroid [Eur. J. Gastroentrol. Hepatic 8(6): 575-8, 1996]. In addition, investigators from George Washington University and the National Institutes of Health reported a case of HIV-positive homosexual man with ulcerative colitis.
Approximately 3 weeks prior to surgery for ulcerative colitis that was unresponsive to corticosteroids, the patient's CD4+ T cell count was 930 cells/ml of blood and the count fell to 313 cells//ml within 10 days of treatment with corticosteroids.
Five days postoperatively, the patient become asymptomatic and was discharged on tapering prednisone without the use of antiretroviral agents. After surgery, the patient's CD4 T cell count progressively rose. The CD4 T cell counts were 622 cells/ml and 843 cells/ml at 3 and 6 weeks following the operation, respectively [Journal of Human Virology 2(1) 52-7, 1999].
The patient was still HIV-positive after operation. The result of this case clearly demonstrates that the reduction of CD4+T cells resulted from the use of corticosteroids treatment and that HIV is a harmless virus.
Steven: It has been well established that both the ELISA and the Western Blot tests are non-standardized between countries and even labs, which has led to many false positives.
These false positives along with the "hit early, hit hard" theory, in turn, have led many doctors to prescribed AZT, protease inhibitors and even prednisone to patients who were not showing any signs of illnesses related to AIDS. What is your understanding of these two misleading tests and because they are non-standardized, do they not falsely implicate people to have a "dangerous illness" when in fact they may not?
Dr. Al-Bayati: My investigation was focused on finding the causes of AIDS and the link between HIV and AIDS. When I found that HIV is not the cause of AIDS, then the issue of the HIV test became unimportant. In fact, I have found that the majority of people who participated in the major four AZT clinical trials that were conducted in the USA between 1986-1992 were HIV-negative prior to their treatment with AZT and their diagnoses were based only on clinical symptoms.
The four published clinical trials are (1) Fischl et al., The New England Journal of Medicine 317 (4): 185-191 (1987); (2) Fischl et al., The New England Journal of Medicine 323 (15): 1009-1014 (1990); (3) Volberding et al., The New England Journal of Medicine 322 (14): 941-949 (1990); and (4) Hamilton et al., The New England Journal of Medicine 326(7): 437-443 (1992). Briefly, a total of 2,482 patients participated in these studies, and only 22% were HIV-positive prior to their treatment with AZT and the rest of the subjects were HIV-negative (62%) and untested (16%).
Steven: In your report you state, "damage to the immune system is rapidly reversible after removal of the true insulting agent or treatment of the true causes." Could you give us some examples of what you mean by "insulting agents" and "treatment of the true causes"?
Dr. Al-Bayati: In my answer to Q4 I gave several examples of the reversal of Kaposi's sarcoma in an HIV-negative homosexual man following the cessation of treatment with prednisone, as well as the reversal of the reduction in CD4+ T cells counts in HIV-positive homosexual men following the cessation of their treatment with corticosteroids.
In these patients the insulting agent that caused AIDS-defining illnesses (Kaposi's sarcoma and severe reduction in CD4+ T cells counts) was corticosteroids. With the cessation of treatment, there was a reversal of these illnesses.
Below are two more examples of patients who developed Kaposi's sarcoma. Their tumors were reversed following the cessation of the use of prednisone. A 66-year old man with a severe bronchial asthma developed KS following treatment with prednisone 10 to 50 mg daily or on alternate days for about five years [Arch Dermatol 166 (11): 1280-2].
The second patient developed generalized Kaposi's sarcoma (extensive skin and stomach lesions) 24 months after renal transplantation while on cyclosporin (CyA) and prednisolone. His Kaposi's sarcoma disappeared completely upon withdrawal of CYA. CYA was introduced following an episode of acute rejection. Within 8 weeks, Kaposi's sarcoma reappeared on the skin at the same sites as the previously healed lesions. The tumor completely disappeared again upon withdrawal of CYA.
Azathioprine was then introduced and Kaposi's sarcoma lesions reappeared 6 month later [Am J Nephrol 1992; 12(5): 384-6].
Furthermore, severe malnutrition has been known to cause immune dysfunction and other serious health effects. This should be considered in the differential diagnosis in HIV infected patients with AIDS, who are suffering from severe malnutrition, before implicating HIV as the cause of AIDS in Africa.
Actually the finding of atrophy of lymphoid tissue in people suffering from malnutrition was observed as early as 1925. For example, Jackson's review on this topic in 1925 noted that many investigators had found a pronounced tendency of atrophy of lymphoid tissue in all conditions of malnutrition. Thymus weight was exquisitely sensitive to malnutrition and was earlier designated as the "barometer of nutrition" [Woodruff, 1972 Lancet 1(7741): 92-3)].
The functions of the immune system, especially the cellular immunity, are impaired in malnutrition cases. The severity of the impairment is dependent on the degree of malnutrition in both human and animals. I presented the results of studies of 345 malnourished children and two experimental animal models in my book that shows the impact of food deprivation on the size of the thymus and the lymphoid organs (Al-Bayati, 1999 Get All The Facts: HIV does not Cause AIDS).
For example, the size of the thymus of 42 malnourished children was reduced by 90% as compared with a case-match normal control (Parent et al. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 60(2): 274-8, 1994). In a second study involving 110 malnourished children, the thymic area was found to be 20% of the size in healthy children and the size of the thymus increased from 20% of normal in a malnourished child to 107% of normal following 9 weeks of proper feeding children (Chevalier et al., J. Trop Perdiatr 44(5): 304-7, 1998).
The reversal of the reduction in CD4+T cell count was also reported in HIV+ pregnant women following proper feeding [Fawzi et al., The Lancet 351:1447-1482, 1998). Briefly, the influence of diet on T cells counts in peripheral blood in 1,075 HIV-infected pregnant women who had poor nutritional status were studied. The CD4+ T cell counts of the women who received multivitamin increased from 424/µL to 596/µL during six months of proper feeding.