Dr. Mercola December 27 2007 63,329 views
I like your point of view, Bob. Obviously we must not underestimate the importance of the gift of gab (and probably a lot of us sitting here in front of our computers are painfully aware because we lack in that department). However, the emphasis now in the US is too strong on schmoozing and manipulating as we all try to sell each other hamburgers or real estate because the engineering jobs are going to people overseas. The protections for people with technical aptitudes are being whittled away, they are being forced to sink or swim, and now they look back and wish they'd partied because the partiers are winning.
We all say this Bob, but have you ever ONCE gone into a doctors office and asked him what his GPA was in med school? Probably not because it's not something we do. We see the diplomas hanging on the wall and the MD or DC or DO after his name and know he's met at least the minimum requirements (which are usually Bs or better) to graduate and leave it at that. You won't ever know if he's able to 'pound shots with his best bud' and whether he got a 4.0 or a 2.9
The problem is that grades are not based on what you know; they are based on how well you take tests. Studying 60 to 80 hours a week may allow for all that information to soak into short term memory long enough to pass the tests. I was a C-student in high school. I never did homework, never studied beyond the bare minimum of reading the books. I always passed the tests, and in college I was on the dean's list without effort.
The problem is that proper study skills, those that would allow the information to go into long-term memory, is not taught to high school or college students, much less practiced. In the long term, my method of slack-assed reading without bothering to do the assigned busy-work or following the class "lessons" did me much more good than cramming or enslaving myself to my studies would have.
from a responder to Bob2's post:
" However, the emphasis now in the US is too strong on schmoozing and manipulating as we all try to sell each other hamburgers or real estate because the engineering jobs are going to people overseas. The protections for people with technical aptitudes are being whittled away, they are being forced to sink or swim, and now they look back and wish they'd partied because the partiers are winning."
...Considering I am one losing my technical job to an American Corporation that has signed an agreement with my Corporate Employer to ship all jobs in my dept. to India, I can only say that it really didn't MATTER what my grades were in college as they didn't care. It became about the bottom dollar, regardless of how inept or adept anyone in my dept. was. Frankly speaking, I expect fully the Corporation will continue to outsource the jobs until enough pain is experienced to make them relinquish this decision but by then I will have moved on.
SO - what does this tell us? The only jobs that the next generation might consider are in two categories: Healthcare/Medical Field and Food Industry. These are two areas that cannot be sent overseas. The Healthcare that can and will would be for elective procedures. These of course are "off the cuff" comments and ideas, but you can plainly see where Emergency Medicine and Food Distribution are not something easily sent/dealt overseas.
I have to disagree, Bob2. I would prefer to have a surgeon who has skill, but his emotional skills are just as important, if not more, than his practical skills. If he has no intuition, no spirit, no compassion due to a lack of experience in working with any of these elements, I don't want to be on his table! It could cost me my life. The ability to think for one's self, to make independent judgements based on your own ability to reason, rather than a memorized script from a text book is not encouraged in our education system. It is in fact DIScouraged! Does America have a successful medical system? No. Thriving economy? No. Does every college graduate, even doctorate holders, possess a corresponding job? No. The Democratic debates last night just highlighted the fact that the highest risk group for unemployment in the approaching recession are - any guesses? College graduates. While this does not comment on grades, it does comment on the fact that the college degree we have lauded as the salvation of the poor, will soon be a joke for many, trying to pay their light bill.
The education system is broken. Priorities are skewed in education. We are taught to focus ONLY on academics, and even those which do not pertain to our field of interest, and to ignore arts, community involvement, spiritual pursuits. You can be the judge if that method has served us well.
In my first year of high school, I had a geometry teacher whom everyone hated, but he somehow taught me the essence of mathematics, and since then I never had any problem with it at all. Whizzed through everything. I can't tell you the secret because I don't know what it is. Something mystical, I suppose. However, I never could figure out what opinion my English teachers wanted me to have. I'm still just dreadful in that category!
thank you Mary!
isn't it interesting the politics of "getting the grade" are never discussed, nor the qualifications, or lack there of, of "teachers", that's every level of ed K-16 and beyond....
if you want to find out the real value of college ed, read "rich dad poor dad" by robert Kiyosaki. Robert's "rich dad" was the wealthiest man in Hawaii, with a 9th grade education, but smarter then most college grads put together. Robert's college ed dad who went back to school over and over again through out his career, left his family in debt.
college ed= *must* work off student loans= work "harder" not smarter = at 80 yrs old "where did my life go?"
I think these comments are very shortsighted. I think a person is completely capable of thinking for themselves, yet receive high grades in school. As someone who did well in school, and graduated as an aerospace engineer, I have been thinking for myself and am quitting my job in two weeks to go back to school (that's right) for a Doctor of Physical Therapy. If I would have said "yes" I would be sitting in this same cubicle a month from now.
I am disturbed by some of these answers. I have a BS in engineering with a 3.0 GPA, an MBA with a 3.8 and I am working on an MS in engineering and have a 3.4 so far. I work full time, and am a single parent. I have enjoyed going to college, each time, even though each time it has been hard work, and I've lost a lot of sleep, but never slighted my family. Each degree has helped my career, and has brought me great satisfaction personally, for achieving these goals. I work in my degree field and love my job.
We can't fine enough qualified American citizens to fill our need for engineers, mathmaticians and scientists - and in my field, only American citizens can be hired. The jobs are out there for technicallty educated Americans of both genders - and grades do count. And good grades are rewarded.
And, while I am not a government employee, I work with many of them, and again, they are well paid and have very good benefits. Again, they are engineers, programmers, mathmaticians and scientists and American citizens.
All the technical jobs aren't going overseas or to foreign nationals. But you have to have good grades, have a degree from an ABET acreddited college, and have high ethical standards. We can't find enough qualified people and are always short handed because not enough American youth are willing to work hard to get those technical degrees - there are far too few Americans getting those types of degrees - most that do are from India, China, the Middle East, etc. That is why so many non-Americans are getting the technical jobs. Because the Americans are getting degrees in underwater basket weaving instead of going into the hard sciences, math and engineering.
And, I made the A's and still had social interactions, as did most of my technical classmates. I still do, as I work on my second post-graduate degree. Working hard to get the grades does not mean ignoring the rest of life. It means learning to balance all parts of your life.
Fredd,
<< Companies so many times have too many priorities in wrong places. >>
I certainly agree with this!
In military life, I often corrected problems by refusing to obey rules. When most people thought I would be in trouble, the commander also disobeyed rules and promoted me sooner than rules allowed, above the one I worked for who followed the rules.
In college I disagreed with most social professors. When everyone expected me to finish, I quit. I got good grades, but it was a waste of time. I already made a higher salary than most professors did.
A job I had 28 years, changed from quality to sales management. I was fired by refusing to lie to customers (advertisements) three times in six months; glad to be gone. Now headquarters are down from 1800 to 20.
The government takes money from us to solve problems, and from that they make the same problems worse. (One of many examples is, "Rolling Stone: How America Lost the War on Drugs - Ben Wallace-Wells")
Priorities are merely opinions, as often wrong as right; failure as much as success.
You are so correct on this. Your wife is to be commended for her hard work. I earned an Associate's Degree at the age of 39. Four years later, my BA. I went to school at night for what seemed to be forever, but held a job and was raising my children as well. Three months after earning my BA, I went on to grad school, earned my MS while commuting about 400 miles per week to attend classes, while still working, finishing a 2 year program in 18 months with a 3.66 GPA.
When the recruiters came to campus, they hired the young kids who had gone to school on their parent's dime, had never worked, partied through school, and had less than perfect grades. Those of us over 35 were passed over. I have yet to find employment in my degree field. Silly me, I even went back to school eight years later, earning yet another Associate's degree in a techincal, low-level engineering field. I earn my living now as an insurance agent.
Surprise, I burned my body out - now I pay the price for my hard work with compromised health issues. Now, I can't buy life insurance, and can't work full-time. Was it worth all the hard work? I just don't know. I do know that no one can take away my education, and I am a wealthier person for having set a goal and accomplished it.
Thank you for this! My husband and I are both in school fulltime, living off of student loans, to be chiropractors. We have FIVE kids....yes FIVE. We live 40 minutes currently from school and are taking a full load of classes (which involves 35+ hours a week sitting in a classroom.) When you add in time to help the kids with homework and then studytime on top of that, we aren't out partying with our friends, but we will NEVER be a 4.0 student. Does that mean we will be bad doctors? We are learning everything possible. Our 5 kids are learning right along with us. We HAVE to have a 3.0 to pass our courses. I don't see a 3.0 making me a worse off doctor than a 4.0. Sometimes you have to look at life circumstances when talking about things of this nature.
I'm 56 working on my BBA because so many in the Nuclear Industry require it. So once I retire and go contracting it's my intention to share my experiences w/ the younger folks. I don't want to work 7-12's every refueling.
I make a 180 mile round trip every Monday for the last 19 months and have six more months to go. GPA is 3.92 and have enjoyed the experience and the new people I've met. But you're right our first professor also told us: at your age no one cares about your GPA". So it's not something I had goals for it's just that in our industry one will wake up one day and realize our work ethic has made us obsessive compulsive and well here I am...LOL......
Live up to your own personal expectations regardless of who cares about GPAs.......and look back some day and be content with a job well done....as in all things in life...